Summary

Oh heyyyy! Welcome to your first taster of my ‘In The Mix’ episode format. In this episode, Brooke and I look into our crystal ball and share our predictions for 2025’s top marketing trends. The rising success of cult beauty brand MCoBeauty has us asking some questions about the ethics behind dupe culture. And then we answer a question from the community “How do you find a business coach and are they worth the money?”

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Time Stamps
00:00: Introduction to the Podcast and Brooke Vulinovich
04:30: Predictions for Brand and Marketing Trends in 2025
12:39: The Rise of Community-Driven Brands
17:36: Exploring Dupe Culture and its Implications
27:31: Is Copying a Form of Flattery?
32:34: How @aimeesmalex went Viral with “Ugly, Low-Fi Content”
37:53: How to be Real, Raw and Unfiltered like @brittney_saunders 
39:15: How @the_dietologist Speaks to their Community
40:09: Are Business Coaches Worth the Money?

Guest Information

Brooke Vulinovich is a business coach, social media marketing consultant, and passionate advocate for small business success. With a background as one of the most sought-after Instagram coaches in the industry, Brooke has spent the past nine years helping business owners turn their social media efforts into tangible results. From in-person VIP Day training events and 1:1 coaching to her VIP Accelerator program, she now empowers entrepreneurs with broader business strategies that deliver real growth.

As the founder of the internationally renowned Social Club, Brooke built one of the largest and most engaged online communities for small business owners using Instagram. She grew the Social Club into a thriving membership and subscription-based business, helping thousands of entrepreneurs—including six- and seven-figure brand owners—achieve incredible success. In 2024, Brooke sold the Social Club, marking a major milestone in her career and paving the way for her next chapter as a business coach and consultant.

Now, Brooke combines her Instagram expertise with business coaching to help entrepreneurs not just grow their social media presence but also build scalable, sustainable businesses. She specialises in teaching practical strategies that simplify social media marketing, improve sales conversions, and create clarity in their business direction.

Brooke has collaborated with global brands like L’Oréal, Maserati, and Dermalogica, and she is currently preparing for an Australia and New Zealand tour with L’Oréal, sharing her expertise with salon owners across the region. Her passion lies in helping business owners—whether they’re just starting out or running million-dollar brands—find clarity, confidence, and success by turning frustration into focused action.

Website: www.brookevulinovich.com

Instagram: brookevulinovich

Episode Transcript

Rachel (00:02)
Hello and welcome to Pour It Out, the marketing podcast for health brands who refuse to be bland. I’m your host, Rachel Hawkins, and today I am joined by my

co-host, Brooke Villinovich. Hey, Brooke. Now on today’s show, we look into our crystal balls and share our predictions for 2025’s top brand and marketing trends.

Brooke Vulinovich (00:15)
Hello?

Rachel (00:25)
The rising success of cult beauty brand, McoBeauty has us asking some questions about the ethics behind dupe culture. And then we answer a question from the community. How do you find a business coach and are they worth the money? But first Brooke, welcome to the podcast.

Brooke Vulinovich (00:42)
Hello, thank you so much for having me. I’m very honored and excited to be here.

Rachel (00:47)
Well, I am so happy to have you here. Now for those who have not met you, they may not have seen you online. Do want to tell everyone a little bit about who you are and what you do? Because you’ve just announced some pretty big and exciting changes that we were talking about before we hit record.

Brooke Vulinovich (00:58)
you

Yes, yes, for anyone who I have been connected with over the years will know the news. So I founded an online Instagram membership called Social Club based on how I started and launched a service based business and a product based business using Instagram. Now, I didn’t always know what I was doing. I was just

a 20 something gal with an idea in her one bedroom apartment in Perth, Western Australia, who had a business and needed to reach an audience. And I saw Instagram firstly as a free way to be able to do that. And I thought if I post a photo of my cat and a photo of my lunch, I’ll become Instagram famous overnight and make millions of dollars and can retire. And as I’m sure you can imagine, it didn’t quite work out like that.

But I was determined and I spent the next couple of months really studying brands on the platform, what they were doing, what they were posting and created essentially a strategy for my business and applied it and it worked. And then I did it for a product based business. And again, same thing studied what other brands were doing. I was able to put a system together and it worked. And then I started teaching business owners in Perth.

how to build Instagram strategies for their businesses. And it was working and they were getting results and I was just only doing things in person, in person workshops, in person consulting. I was writing strategies and then I had businesses reach out from interstate and overseas and say, will you take your teaching online? We’ve heard all these amazing things about the results that you’re getting, but we can’t get to Perth. How can we work with you? And that was when I created Social Club and Social Club.

grew to be one of the biggest Instagram coaching communities globally. We had thousands of members in, I think we ended up getting to 37 countries around the world. But recently, I have passed it on to actually the biggest Instagram coaching community in the world. It has been acquired by…

by them. And so now I’m really leaning into business coaching and what I have learned about growing a business over the past 10 years and doing more one-on-one and small group coaching and in-person events around the world. And yeah, it’s just that’s the first time I’ve actually said that out loud on a podcast. So it’s crazy.

Rachel (03:34)
It’s, you know what? It is crazy. And it’s

such an exciting acquisition for you. The end of a chapter, but also the beginning of another really exciting one, I’m sure. So we’re very, very excited to have you here. Cause I know you know so much about marketing, so much about business. And we’re going to dive into all of the things. Although I do have to say, I want it on the record that it’s about 7.30 at night here in Australia and my brain switches off at three. So.

I’m not responsible for anything that comes out of my mouth.

Brooke Vulinovich (04:06)
I love that. I love that. Okay, well, it’s 10 o’clock in the morning in Croatia where I live, so I will make up for it. I promise. Yes, let’s go.

Rachel (04:14)
Yeah, yeah, we’ll be a good team. All right, should we jump into the first segment?

This is flavor of the week, the segment where we discuss a trending brand or marketing topic and pull out some practical lessons for you to apply within your own business. Now at the time of recording, we are just a few weeks away from the end of the year, which is insane and so naturally conversation is already beginning to turn to 2025 and what is going to be hot in the marketing world what is not going to be so hot

so Brooke and I thought we would share a few of our predictions for the brand and marketing trends we think you need to be across as we get ready to enter the new year Brooke, would you like to kick us off?

Brooke Vulinovich (05:10)
I would absolutely like to kick you off. So I have two really big trends that I’ve been seeing more and more and more, but it’s getting to a point now where I believe it’s either do this or you’re going to really struggle to grow in 2025 So the first thing is more owners talking face to camera. Now,

This isn’t a new concept. We have been hearing about this for years. You can’t hide behind your logo. You have to get your face online. over the years, what was happening was, so you had your professionally done logo and then you do a professional photo shoot and you could whack those photos up and write out a caption from you as the owner. Then video became more apparent. So again, you would get your hair and makeup done. You do these beautifully curated videos.

and talk face to camera. And then what we saw actually happen this year was the rise of B-roll content, where that sort of behind the scenes content became bigger and bigger and more engaging and more authentic. And going into next year, what we’re seeing is owners talking to camera, but not fully dressed up, hair and makeup not done. Just as if they were having a conversation.

with a friend about what is going on in their business and recording and talking about what would be sort of considered the boring stuff. Like the stuff that you’re doing day to day that is the reason that your business operates the way that it does, but it might not be that perfectly scripted educational content that we’re so used to in the past. So that would be my first piece of advice.

get on camera looking fugly talking about the boring shit that makes your business run. That is what people want to

Rachel (07:08)
this is such a nice shift within the online environment. Like I remember when I first started on Instagram, I used to put so much pressure on myself to, you know, be done up and show up a certain way online and you had to say things perfectly and you’d record a story 20 times before you posted it. But now I feel like so much less pressure and maybe that comes with being on, you know, a social platform for a long time, but certainly I think TikTok really helps.

Brooke Vulinovich (07:11)
Yeah.

you

Yes.

Rachel (07:36)
with this sort of shift that we’re seeing. So I’m all here for that. So I’m glad you think it’s sticking around next year.

Brooke Vulinovich (07:37)
Mm-hmm.

It’s absolutely sticky around. It’s not going anywhere, which is great. And then the second thing is this concept that’s come about. And there’s a quote that I really, really love that I feel like sums it up perfectly. And it’s that the best brands don’t sell, they make you want to join the club. And it’s so true. So if you think about the labels that you buy,

of bags, of clothes, of makeup, of whatever it is, the place you go to Pilates, it’s because you like the environment, you want to be part of that community. And this is just growing more and more and more. think with the rise of social media and people feeling less in touch, anything that they can jump into to feel part of a community and feel connected again is going to grow. That’s not going anywhere. So

If you can build a community around your brand by involving your customers more, making them feel seen, making them feel heard. A really good example of this is there’s a lot of really big brands that previously would do these influencer trips. And that was a campaign, an advertising campaign for their business. And they’d get these influencers with millions of followers and they’d fly them to all these luxury places around the world.

Something that’s happened over this year, time and time again, with much bigger brands, is they’re actually replacing influencers with their customers, with just everyday people, because it’s considered more relatable. How do you relate to someone that has millions and millions and millions of followers? That can be really hard, but I can relate to a customer because I am a customer. And it’s like the

point of the campaign used to be for brand awareness. We’ll book influencers with the biggest followings because when they share it with their millions of followers, it expands our brands. Whereas it’s almost like the brand mindset has changed now from brand awareness to brand loyalty and brand trust by using current customers. And there’s a really strong and important message in that for us as small businesses that

I think we really need to take note of.

Rachel (09:57)
Absolutely. You know what? was actually reading an article the other day that referred to this as the run club effect. Have you heard of this saying?

Brooke Vulinovich (10:05)
I left Australia before Run Club became a thing, but I know about it. I have seen it everywhere. Trust me, in Croatia, there’s no Run Club. But it’s so true The Run Club and also the in Perth I think they call it skinny nips or cold nips the swimming at 5am in the ocean

Rachel (10:26)
What is that?

Yes!

Brooke Vulinovich (10:29)
that’s a really big thing

now as well which is great how good how good that health is becoming cool again because in my generation staying up for three days and going to every club that was possibly open as in nightclub that was cool there was no run clubs

Rachel (10:33)
Yes!

Yep.

that’s right that’s right

There’s a reason why Gen Z I think they’re marked as like, you know, the healthiest sort of younger generation, like they’re going to the gym, they’re doing run club, etc. But I just think it’s so funny that they’re using that term run club effect to refer to brands that are

Brooke Vulinovich (10:53)
Yeah.

Rachel (11:00)
investing in community.

Brooke Vulinovich (11:02)
Yeah, yeah.

Rachel (11:03)
in

which, you know, it’s exactly what you said because yeah, they’re investing in fostering that loyalty and advocacy instead of putting on events where they’re flogging their products, you know, it’s like a completely different approach to building a brand essentially.

Brooke Vulinovich (11:13)
Yeah.

Absolutely. It’s cool though, because it makes it more accessible for anybody, especially a small business owner that doesn’t have hundreds of thousands of dollars to put on a huge brand marketing campaign. But anyone can start building a community around their brand for zero dollars. So that’s why it’s great. That’s why it’s cool. When I started Social Club, it didn’t cost anything.

we essentially monetized an email list that I didn’t have enough people on my database at the time that I had to pay to use the platform. And we used a free Facebook group and that was it. It was free to start it. Over the years of growing it, trust me, it wasn’t free to run anymore. But that’s the cost of then managing a large community. So that’s different.

Rachel (12:04)
You

Brooke Vulinovich (12:13)
To start it, it costs nothing and that’s awesome.

Rachel (12:17)
And that’s something that everyone listening can do as well, which I love. You know, it’s a really accessible and practical thing that you can do to strengthen your brand. It’s funny, my predictions very much align with what you have just shared. So one of my predictions for 2025 is that personal brands and founder led brands are really going to continue to drive serious growth in 2025. And

Brooke Vulinovich (12:20)
Yeah.

It’s funny, my prediction is very much aligned with what you have just shared. one of my predictions…

Yeah.

Rachel (12:44)
As you were saying, you we really have already started to see this shift, especially towards the backend of this year. I just think, you know, the online environment has changed so much AI technology is being utilized. It’s, you know, more mainstream now. And I think consumers are a lot more skeptical about what we are seeing online. And so because of this, think communities and online audiences are really

Brooke Vulinovich (12:55)
technology is being utilized, it’s in the mainstream now and I think consumers are a lot more skeptical.

Rachel (13:11)
almost like craving that more relatable content and to actually see the people behind the businesses and brands that we follow. And it’s funny because I don’t know whether you saw at the beginning of this year, there was this massive push towards faceless brands and there were lots of creators almost kind of doing a bit of an experiment to show I grew my Instagram or TikTok or whatever it may be to X followers.

Brooke Vulinovich (13:16)
Yes.

Mm.

Rachel (13:37)
as a faceless brand, can do that too. Obviously, you know, speaking to people who,

are a little bit scared of, of, or uncertain about showing up online, but I just don’t see that working next year. I think the faceless brand thing is out. I think people are in. And the reason that I say this is because the people that follow you online, they want to see your face. As you say, they want to hear your stories. They want to have a conversation with you. And when you’re able to do this as a business,

Brooke Vulinovich (13:45)
Mm-hmm.

say this is because the people that follow you online, they want to see your face as you say, they want to hear your stories, they want to have a conversation with you. And when you’re able to do this as a business

Rachel (14:06)
owner, you will reap the rewards of that because as you know, people get to know you, they like you, they then trust you. And then that’s ultimately what will lead to that increase in engagement and conversion and that advocacy that we were speaking about too. So

Brooke Vulinovich (14:06)
owner, you will reap the rewards of that because as you know, people will get to know you, they like you, they trust you, and then that’s ultimately what will lead to that increase in engagement and conversion and the advocacy that we were speaking about too. So.

Rachel (14:22)
absolutely. think you gave some great tips. Show your face, show the behind the scenes, show the messiness there. Another prediction that I have again,

aligns with what we were talking about is around ugly and lo-fi content. Have you heard of these terms? Yeah. Okay.

Brooke Vulinovich (14:38)
Ugly and lo-fi? I have not. Please fill in.

Rachel (14:43)
All right. Okay. So ugly or lo-fi content is like that raw off the cuff style content that you film on your iPhone, right? So I think that is very much going to be in and all of the polished stuff is out. And as we were saying, you know,

Brooke Vulinovich (14:53)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Rachel (15:00)
Instagram and social media platforms, you know, it’s no longer about sharing that really aesthetic photo and having that, you know, beautiful grid. It’s very much about being relatable and that trumps the whole perfection. So I would say to anyone listening, take off that sort of self-imposed pressure that you’re putting on yourself to, you know, show up as that, you know, polished version of you and embrace the lo-fi content because that

Brooke Vulinovich (15:14)
So I would say to anyone listening, take off that self-enclosed pressure that you’re putting on yourself. Show up with that polished version of you and embrace the multi-content because that

Rachel (15:27)
is really what’s going to drive results. It’s relatable. It shows that you’re human and

Brooke Vulinovich (15:27)
is really what’s to drive results. It’s relatable. It shows that you’re human and…

Rachel (15:32)
that’s what we want to see.

Brooke Vulinovich (15:34)
It just feels more real, doesn’t it? It feels more achievable. It feels more attainable. it’s that terminology authentic, that word authentic that gets thrown around every year, but each year the meaning of it is evolving and changing. And again, as brands are growing and customers are needing more and more touch points to make a decision making.

Rachel (15:50)
Hmm.

Brooke Vulinovich (16:00)
purchase with them, this can almost be, you know, that one piece of content that that’s it, that gets them in, or that’s the piece of content that makes them feel more invested. It could be the missing piece of the puzzle if someone’s listening thinking, you know, I’m giving social media my all, I’m doing all the right things, I’m doing the shoots, I’m doing this, I’m doing that, and I’m just not converting.

Rachel (16:15)
Hmm.

Brooke Vulinovich (16:28)
this could be the content that you’re missing.

Rachel (16:30)
Yeah, I could not agree more. And also, you know, we’re speaking to health brands here. I’ve got a really large audience of health practitioners. And so I feel like sharing this style of content, just makes you more approachable as well by, by people who want to. That’s right. Yeah. Exactly. Right. All right. So, Lugly, Lugly. Love that. I told you it’s 7pm. Lugly content is in.

Brooke Vulinovich (16:39)
Mmm

Absolutely. As a service provider. Yeah. Yeah.

Luckily, we’re here.

Rachel (17:07)
This is hot take the segment where we discuss and give our opinion on important brand marketing and industry topics. And today we’re talking about M.C.O. beauty because

Just a few weeks ago, MCO beauty was ranked number six on the Australian financial reviews, fast 100 list, recognizing them as one of

the fastest growing companies in Australia this year, which is wild. So let’s talk some stats. I’ve done some research here. Now, according to the AFR, MCO beauty’s revenue has risen eightfold over the past three years from 31.

$2.2 million in revenue in 2022 to $261.4 million in 2024, which is a compound annual growth rate of 189.6%. I don’t know about you Brooke, that sounds pretty big to me.

Brooke Vulinovich (18:06)
That

sounds pretty big to me too, girl.

Rachel (18:11)
Now for those who are unfamiliar with M.co beauty, this brand was launched in 2016 after the business’s founder Shelly Sullivan noticed a gap in the market for quality but well-priced cosmetics. Now Shelly has said she wanted to make products that were just as good as luxury brands

but sell them at a more accessible price point. So here in Australia, you can find M.C.O. in stores like Chemist Warehouse, Big W, Woolworths, real everyday stores. However, M.C.O. Beauty’s path to success has not been without controversy because their entire business strategy is centered on duping, or in other words, copying the popular cosmetics products of well-known brands. And I think the most popular and well-known would be Charlotte Tilbury there.

and then selling these products in really similar packaging as this Luxe for Less cosmetics and beauty option. And boy, boy, I feel like I have mixed feelings about this, but maybe we should start the conversation by talking about dupe culture as a whole. So what are your thoughts on dupe culture?

Brooke Vulinovich (19:10)
Maybe we should start the conversation by thinking about juke culture as a whole. what are your thoughts?

Look, juke culture has existed forever. It’s just that Gen Z and millennials have given it a cool name. It’s fake. That’s how we called it. That’s how we referred to it. You’ve always been to been able to buy fake things that were copies of

luxury brands but since the rise of again Gen Z, TikTok and whoever originally came up with this term of dupe which is short for duplicate it sounds cool for some reason. The exact psychology behind it I don’t get probably because I wasn’t raised in that generation but

for, you know, again, these Gen Z, I’m a millennial, but I’m tipping the edge, for these Gen Z

We can’t blame them for the generation that they were brought up in and they were brought up in the generation of fast food, fast fashion, teamu, being able to get anything, anytime, anywhere at a super cheap price. So their value of, you know, designer goods and designer bags and designer products or high ticket isn’t there like it is fast because of

the generation they were raised in. And we can’t be angry at them because of that. It’s just where does it borderline on being ethical and I mean, it is legal. We know that. It shouldn’t be because it’s that real gray area and finding a lot of loopholes in the law. But it is.

Rachel (21:03)
I think you hit the nail on the head there. It is so gray. And I think that’s why this is such an interesting conversation. And when I was thinking about, you what points do I want to sort of make sure that I get across in this conversation? How am I going to approach it? Cause I feel like my head was like everywhere and I was almost like debating with myself. Like, no, but this, et cetera. What I think is really important in the context of having a conversation around

dupe culture is actually context. So as you were saying, like this isn’t new, find me someone who hasn’t taken a holiday and gone to Bali or Thailand and come back with a dupe purchase, right? Like I was in Bali a couple of weeks ago and the streets were lined with stores that had fake Chanel and Louis Vuitton and Bulgari bags, sunnies, hats, shoes, like you name it, right? And it’s funny when I think about dupe culture in that context, I’m like, I’m okay with it.

Brooke Vulinovich (21:58)
I

Rachel (21:58)
I accept it. I don’t have any negative feelings towards it. I would almost go as far

Brooke Vulinovich (21:59)
don’t have any negative feelings towards it. I would almost go as-

Rachel (22:04)
to say that dupe culture in this context, so in the context of, I suppose, like the little guy, duping big brands, it’s almost like encouraged or praised. Like no one’s going shopping in Semenyak and looking at the shops thinking, my God, I wonder how Chanel feels about their bag being duped.

Brooke Vulinovich (22:17)
Hmm.

Absolutely. Yeah, it’s interesting. And it’s not just barley. Like if you have shopped at Kama, if you have shopped at Target, if you have shopped at Zara, their entire business model is just a copy of the brands, big brands, small brands, everything. without

Rachel (22:24)
No, we’re looking at it being like, wow, this looks really good. I’m going to get this bag, you know?

Yes!

You’re right.

Brooke Vulinovich (22:47)
realizing you are supporting and don’t get me wrong like I fucking love Kmart love Zara love it all but you are supporting it being okay because you’re funding them continuing to do it

Rachel (22:54)
Yep, yep.

That’s right. That’s right. And it’s interesting because when I then think about M.C.O. beauty, right, like they come along, they start ripping off cosmetics and beauty products. In this context, I personally begin to feel a bit icky about it and I’m trying to like kind of understand, okay, what do I feel icky about? Maybe it’s because it feels closer to home to me. I don’t know, like psychologically,

Brooke Vulinovich (23:13)
Mm.

Hmm.

Rachel (23:24)
because the brands that are being duped feel a little bit smaller than the big guys. I also think as well when I was doing research for this episode, I felt that Emco Beauty are almost like so unashamed by like their blatant copycat strategy. And they’re not just copying the products, right? They’re not saying, everyone loves this, you know, blush or foundation. They’re then putting it in a package that’s near identical to the original.

Brooke Vulinovich (23:37)
Yeah. It’s Yes, the bottles, the

fonts, the design, the branding, everything.

Rachel (23:57)
and therefore they are leveraging the popularity and the brand power of these other businesses in order to make money and I think that’s where for me it’s like a bit of an ethical issue right? Do you buy as you say or do you not buy?

Brooke Vulinovich (24:13)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. at the end of the day, no one’s forcing you to buy these prams, just like no one’s forcing you to buy fake bags in Bali. It is up to every single consumer whether you want to make that purchasing decision or not. But if you look at the numbers and the stats that you shared at the start of this section of the episode, there’s a lot of people making that decision to buy it. And you don’t even have to look at those numbers. Go on TikTok. Search beauty.

Rachel (24:20)
Mm.

Brooke Vulinovich (24:43)
would the top clips not be people talking about dupes and looks for less? And one that is very, very popular is that Charlotte Tilbury, yeah, yeah, that foundation. It’s one of the most popular ones. Again, I guess it just comes down to Gen Z and millennials who are looking for a bargain

Rachel (24:56)
Yeah.

Brooke Vulinovich (25:07)
because they’re not earning six, seven figures they’re uni students or they’re part timers and they want that lux look and they can’t afford it so they’re looking for another option and at the end of the day, if it does the same job, why would they go then and pay for the more expensive brand? And that’s what they’re all saying. They’re doing this comparison and the products are basically exactly the same. And so they’re buying it. And that’s the market that

MCO beauty is targeting. They’re not targeting boomers. You know, they’re not targeting people that have a high disposable income. That is not their target market. They are targeting uni students. They’re targeting low income earners. They’re targeting. a completely different market. And that’s the strategy and it’s working.

Rachel (25:39)
That’s right.

Mm.

I agree with you I’ve got a question so if this was a case of big brand ripping off a small business in some way, or two small businesses with one kind of copying or making dupes of another’s product, would we feel the same about dupe culture then? Would it be as positive or would it be as accepted or would there be a different reaction here?

Brooke Vulinovich (26:04)
Hmm.

Well, it’s starting to come up more and more. I can’t remember the name of the designer. It’s Anne or Annie something. She created a dress and it’s like black top, white skirt or vice versa. And it’s now been ripped off by Target. It’s been ripped off by Cotton On and that’s the reverse of it.

Rachel (26:34)
Yes. Yes.

Brooke Vulinovich (26:43)
and she put out a TikTok that’s gone viral of her with, I think it’s a Courtney Kardashian voiceover saying, am unsubscribing from this. I do not want to be involved in this because the consumers were coming out and saying, well, hang on a minute. We’ve noticed that they’re being ripped off. She wasn’t, I don’t think she was the first person to share it, but she had to acknowledge it because there was so much content being shared about it. So it’s interesting, isn’t it? Because

Rachel (26:54)
Hahaha

Brooke Vulinovich (27:12)
They’re almost the first ones to buy it, but then also the first ones to call it out.

Rachel (27:16)
Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. Yeah. And I just keep going back to this context because like for me, if I saw, let’s just go with the scenario of two small businesses, right? Like I grew up with, you know, being told that, what is it? Copying is a sincerest form of flattery or something like that. Right. Okay. I don’t think that personally. If I think

Brooke Vulinovich (27:34)
Fluttery. Yeah.

Hahaha

I disagree.

Rachel (27:42)
Yeah,

I disagree. I strongly disagree. We have two small businesses here with one duping the other in some some way copying the other. I’m like, that’s not flattery. That’s sort of more sabotagey behavior, right? And as to your point, like, I’m not really sure where that line between dupe culture being, let’s say, a good thing or a bad thing is, but I know that it definitely exists because

Brooke Vulinovich (27:55)
Yeah.

Rachel (28:10)
we do see this shift as you say, with people sort of jumping the fence when actually, no, I’m not okay with a dupe or copying in this scenario. And I think on a small business lens, if we think about, you know, our audience here being health brands, there is a very fine line between being inspired by someone’s brand or their services or their products or whatever that may be, and then actually copying them. And I think you sort of,

Brooke Vulinovich (28:10)
We do see this shift, as you say, with people sort of jumping the fence when actually not even a group of people copying in this scenario. I think on a small business lens, if you think about our audience here being health brands, there is a very fine line between being inspired by someone’s brand or their services or their products or whatever that may be, and then actually copying.

Rachel (28:40)
Maybe hit the nail on the head when you were talking about the different target markets that like an Co beauty versus a Charlotte Tilbury are trying to target or Chanel versus, you know purchasing a fake They’re two very distinct audiences someone who buys a real Louis Vuitton handbag is likely not going to buy a fake and vice versa

Brooke Vulinovich (28:40)
Maybe hit the nail on the head when you were talking about the different target markets. the M.Clo’s Beauty versus the Charlotte Tilbury are a trend and target or a Chanel versus, you know, purchasing the fake. They’re two very distinct pieces. Someone who buys…

However, in the context of small business, could be argued that it’s actually maybe more likely that these two businesses are targeting the same people. Instead, it’s like ethically, it’s like, you’ve got two businesses, one’s the OG, one’s copying the others they’re both targeting the same type of people

Rachel (29:02)
However, in the context of small business, it could be argued that it’s actually maybe more likely that these two businesses are targeting the same people. So then it’s like ethically, it’s like, okay, you’ve got two businesses, one’s the OG, one’s copying the other. They’re both targeting the same type of people.

they’re leveraging that other brand to make money and also harming that other brand, some could argue depending on how successfully they do that

And I’m like, that’s just not right.

Brooke Vulinovich (29:31)
I

know unfortunately it happens over my

very small experience in the business world really in the scheme of things. I’ve been doing this now for 10 years, which really isn’t that long I have been copied in every way, shape or form a million times And it’s interesting because sometimes it’s copying an idea, sometimes it’s copying a post, sometimes it’s copying an offer, sometimes it’s copying a sales page.

where literally the only thing that has been replaced is their business name for my business name. And in some cases, I choose to ignore it. Obviously, you can go down the legal pathway. in some cases, especially when it’s people that have been clients that I’ve had to bring it up and they just say, I didn’t realize I’m just so inspired by you

have to sit back and think, do you really not realize where the line is in copying? And as a business coach or a marketing coach or a business mentor who does give away a lot of templates and lift and shift scripts and things that you can, I give it to you to copy and just be able to insert your thing there. Do people think that’s okay? Then to just do it with everything.

I think it just depends on every human individually and where their morals sit. I morally could never do that because to me and what I consider to be the definition of copying, that is copying. But not everyone, I suppose, defines copying in the same way. That’s all it comes down to.

Rachel (31:05)
Mm.

You’re right.

You are right. Yeah and look I’m not sure that this conversation is one we can tie up in a pretty little bow so let’s leave it here but I’m very interested to hear what the community thinks about this

This is Toastworthy Brands, the segment where we shout out the brands that are doing amazing things online and Brooke, have two to talk about.

Brooke Vulinovich (31:42)
I do have two to talk about. I’m gonna start with my first fangirl of the day. So this is one that I’ve actually only become recently obsessed with. I get obsessed with different brands and different people. And it’s Amy Smales who’s the founder of Odd News. Now I was aware of Odd News, which is a fashion label that started in the UK, or she’s still in the UK. I was aware of

as in the label, but.

I was only interested in the owner when Stephen Bartlett, basically the owner of Odd News did a TikTok, fugly, what did you call that content? What did you call it? Ugly and don’t, please if Amy Smiles hopefully becomes my best friend one day and listen to this, in no way am I calling her fugly at all. But it was just.

Rachel (32:24)
Yeah, well, I think I stumbled and said fugly, but ugly, low-fi content.

Brooke Vulinovich (32:37)
her talking face to camera, crying, not in a pretty outfit, not with her hair and makeup done, about how hard she was finding running her business. And the TikTok went viral and someone sent it to Stephen Bartlett, who is the host and founder of Diary of the CEO. Very, very, very successful businessman, very cool as well. Love him, love his book, love his podcast, love everything. And he…

slid into her DMs and said, a few people have sent me your TikTok, I’d love to have a chat, I’d love to help you. And he ended up helping her pull herself out of this mindset that we’ve all been in as business owners. And that is when I was like, who is this girl? I need to know about this. And then I became obsessed with her. And on the weekend, she followed me back on TikTok. So we’re basically best friends now.

Rachel (33:18)
Wow.

Brooke Vulinovich (33:31)
and I don’t post TikToks and she’s the only person I follow. So actually if she looked into my TikTok, she’d think that was really fucking weird and creepy. So maybe we won’t be best friends, but we’ll see. I’m also obsessed with her YouTube channel because she has a fashion brand. So you would think of anyone in the world that would only show up looking glam from head to toe. And I would keep, would you consider it high end? It’s a.

affordable, but it looks very high end, beautiful dresses, bridesmaid dresses. I would call it like cocktail wear. And she also is launching a line of active wear, active sort of wear, I think coming up. But for someone like that to be able to again show up, no makeup, hair not done, ugly outfit, crying on screen and being able to go viral, grab the attention of

some of the biggest brands in the world, does that not tell us that is what works? Does that not tell us that as we were discussing at the start, that this unfiltered, unscripted content is what is resonating most with audiences online? And even her YouTube channel that I follow a lot of YouTubers and over the years,

as they have grown and their channels have grown, they’ve gotten, you know, they’re basically documentaries, like perfectly filmed, scripted, edited documentaries that I love to consume, don’t get me wrong. But to follow hers, which is really just her with, I think she’s using a camera. At first I thought she was just using her phone, but I think she’s using a camera and it’s literally just her discussing whatever she’s working on that day, where she is.

Rachel (34:58)
Hmm.

Brooke Vulinovich (35:20)
The videos are edited together and that is it. And again, for the owner of a fashion label that their entire business relies on how it looks to be able to do that and see so much success tells us as small businesses really that it’s OK to show up like that. some of her videos that have gone viral recently. She started recording and sharing her meetings with her finance officer.

Rachel (35:50)
Interesting.

Brooke Vulinovich (35:50)
And she’s

not talking face to camera. She’s just got the camera recording her talking into her laptop screen and them talking back. And she obviously clips out when they discuss actual numbers. But I just find it really fascinating. It’s almost like watching an unedited episode of Shark

You can learn through just listening to what they talk about, how they talk, the numbers that they’re discussing and…

it’s just fascinating because it feels like you’re there with them on the meeting and it feels real. And yeah, I like it. I like it a lot.

Rachel (36:24)
All right, so we are all going to be looking

up her details and watching her YouTube. That sounds awesome. And who is your second Toastworthy brand?

Brooke Vulinovich (36:35)
My second one is Britney Saunders. Now,

the obsession is not as creepy with Britney Saunders. She’s just someone I am aware of because she again has a fashion

I think her point of difference is they do from size six to size 26.

And she also does very real, raw, unfiltered social media clips where she talks about business. She doesn’t just talk about fashion. Everything isn’t just perfect look, perfect clothes. She recently did a video that went viral where she talked about how they had to the plug on a store that they were planning to open. And it was a very

was talking about the terms of the lease and how they would negotiate and they’d done everything, everything to get this store set up and they just couldn’t come to an agreement on the terms of the lease and so they had to pull the pin. And how many people would realistically talk about all the time and effort and energy they had put into an offer as a business owner and it failed and they had to walk away from it.

Rachel (37:22)
just saw that one.

Brooke Vulinovich (37:45)
Not many people talk about it. They talk about the success and they talk about the wins and not many people talk about that. And I found it really fascinating. And then she did another one talking about, you know, she is an eight figure business owner. Like

Get it girl.

any business owner that can be honest about the lows,

and be as honest about the lows and the failures as they are about the highs and the wins gets my immediate attention and respect

that’s relatable and that makes you real. And that’s why I think these brands have grown and become so successful because they’re showing both sides, not just one side of the story.

Rachel (38:25)
I could not agree more. And it’s funny, your two toast worthy brands very much align with the conversations we were having earlier around our 2025 predictions. And my one actually does as well. So my brand that I want to shout out is Stephanie Vallakis, who is the founder of The Dietologist. So that is a team of fertility dietitians based here in Australia. And what I love about Steph’s content is she does the lo-fi stuff.

Brooke Vulinovich (38:33)
I wonder if she does as well.

Mm-hmm.

Rachel (38:50)
so, so well. She won’t mind me saying that because we recently worked together and we had a big conversation about this and just how effective this style of content is within her strategy. Her in feed content on Instagram in particular, it is very client focused, but in terms of their use of stories, they’re always showing their face. You know, they’re always talking to their community.

Brooke Vulinovich (38:51)
so well. She won’t mind me saying that because we recently worked together and we have a big conversation about this. And just how effective this style of content is within her strategy. Her in-feed content on Instagram in particular is very quiet and focused, but in terms of their use of stories, they’re always showing their face.

they’re always talking to their community.

Rachel (39:14)
the content doesn’t have to be perfectly edited. They don’t have filters or anything on. They just show up as themselves. And this works so well for the brand. It

Brooke Vulinovich (39:14)
Their content doesn’t have to be perfectly edited, etc. could show up as themselves and this works so well for the brand.

Rachel (39:24)
was one of the first Instagram audits I did where I was like, you’re doing really well. You’ve got a consistent growth rate and basically just keep doing what you’re doing because it’s working really well for you. So it’s cool that these brands very much align with the conversation and the themes that we have been having.

Brooke Vulinovich (39:27)
Yeah.

Rachel (39:51)
this is straight shot. The segment where we answer a question from the pour it out community. And this week’s question is a goodie. It reads, how do you find a business coach and are they worth the money? Now, Brooke, did reveal to you prior to recording that I’ve actually never had a business coach. And I think this is a

pretty good one to throw

over to you to answer. So.

Brooke Vulinovich (40:15)
Firstly, I think it’s phenomenal that you have it and everything you have done and your success without having one. So well done, well done girlfriend, because I’m the opposite. I’ve had every single business coach under the sun. When I started in business, I felt like because I dropped out of uni and because I dropped out of TAFE, how can I walk into a room full of people that perhaps do have degrees or do have some form of

formal education and expect them to not only listen to me, but pay attention to what I’m saying and take action on what I’m saying. It was a real mindset, I suppose, thing that I was stuck on. And so for me, I thought, well, if I can get business coaching, the more I can learn, the more I’ll know, the faster I’ll get results and the more people will respect me. And

I’m also the first person to put my hand up and say, I don’t know anything about anything. And I always felt like I didn’t know anything about business as well. So I have worked with a variety of business coaches over the years and done lots of programs and flown here and done this and gone there. And I personally believe that the things that I have learned are the fundamental reason my business grew as fast and as big as it did. I think I…

possibly still could have got there on my own, but it would have taken me a lot longer. I also think being a really extroverted person, I work well around people and with people and I love having people to bounce ideas off and workshop things with. So that for me is another reason that I’ve always used business coaches. Also for accountability, I love to…

be set a task and do it and over deliver. That’s something else that I really like to do.

think a piece of advice would be don’t expect one person to have all the answers. Again, over the years as I’ve done many different programs and worked with many different coaches, as you work with different people, you learn not only what they know, but what they can get out of you.

And my very first business coach I still work with to this day. And she doesn’t have a program as such. She doesn’t coach very many people anymore at all anymore. But she knows how I work. I know how she works. And she knows if I’m reaching out to book a session with her, I am stuck. And I cannot find the answers myself.

Rachel (42:51)
Mmm.

Brooke Vulinovich (42:55)
and we will go hard for an hour and a half, two hours. And she just has a way of getting everything out of my brain and making it make sense. So I will never leave her alone if she is listening to this. Hi, I will never leave you alone. I guess, and that’s just my journey. It doesn’t mean it’s the be all and end all, but if you’re trying to get from A to B,

Rachel (43:10)
You

Brooke Vulinovich (43:21)
somebody else is already at B and they have a way you can pay them to learn how to be at B faster? Why wouldn’t you? You know?

Rachel (43:31)
I

agree. Yeah. I’m all for investing in people or processes or whatever it may be in order to get you to where you want to be faster. And even though I haven’t invested in, let’s say a business coach per se, what I have invested in is courses or communities where I can, as you say, work with people who I want to learn a specific skill from.

Brooke Vulinovich (43:45)
What I have invested in is courses, communities where I can, as you say, work with people who are on a one-off specific skill set.

Rachel (43:55)
And when I’m enrolled in their programs, I am like the most active person in the program and I’m attending all the calls and I’m asking questions and I’m sort of making myself known. So that could be another way that those who are listening could go about seeking support. If you aren’t able to find the right business coach right now, what communities, what programs could you do to learn what you want to learn whilst you were trying to find that perfect person as well?

Brooke Vulinovich (44:00)
and I’m attending over.

So that could be another way that those sorts of things…

Mm-hmm

And there’s so many now as well versus when I started business, I could probably count on one hand how many people were business coaches Australia wide. You knew them all because there was so little. Whereas over the last 10 years, we’ve seen this enormous rise of

women starting businesses and not to discount men as well, there’s a lot of men doing it, but specifically women starting businesses and then other women wanting to know how they did it and that’s where it’s come out. look, there’s, I don’t want to say there’s a lot of BS, but there is a lot of BS out there, but the people with the BS, they’ve had success stories. So perhaps they did make it work for some people.

I think the business coaching industry is getting a bad rap at the moment because there’s a lot of people who don’t have probably the years that back up the claims, but they’ve obviously got some success from somewhere and did something. Otherwise they wouldn’t be here being able to do it. It’s a tricky one. It’s a really tricky one. I think…

If you’re looking for a business coach, shop around,

and because I know this has happened to me, shop around and don’t make the decision on the call. A lot of the time you’ll end up on this call and before you know it, you’ve handed over your credit card details and you’re like, hang on, I don’t even know what just happened. You can ask to think on it and think on it.

Also, if you’re in a program and you’re not seeing results or the program is not what you signed up for, I know a lot of people that get very stuck in programs because they come and they tell me I’m in this thing and I can’t get out. And well, actually, you can. You’re a customer. And if what is being delivered is not what you signed up for, you can get out.

And that’s the part that I don’t like about these programs. So Social Club wasn’t a business coaching program, but it was a subscription model, which meant that if you handed over your credit card details to my company, every month you were charged. But we had no lock-in fees. And if you wanted to cancel, we didn’t make you jump over hoops to get out of the program because I didn’t want people to feel like that.

I wanted my customer to feel like you could come and go because sometimes you’re super motivated and sometimes you’re not, right? Sometimes you want support, sometimes you’re good to do it on your own. And the number two reason that people joined Social Club over the years when we were polling our members was actually they were returning members, which is cool. But a lot of these coaching programs, they will lock you in for 12 months and you cannot get out and it’s not delivering what it said. And that I don’t like.

Rachel (46:57)
Hmm.

Brooke Vulinovich (47:18)
I don’t think that’s right.

Rachel (47:19)
I completely agree. And I think to your point, like the best advice here would be shop around because you know, like any industry, there’s always going to be those who perhaps tarnish the name a little bit or tarnish the reputation and those that do a really amazing job and lift it up. So shop around, speak to people and you know, go with where your gut tells you, think.

Brooke Vulinovich (47:24)
Hmm.

Mm.

Mm.

And look for people who have done what you’re trying to do

If you want to learn how to grow a membership online, look for someone who has grown a membership online.

look for people whose stories align with what you’re trying to achieve in your business.

Rachel (47:58)
I think that is fantastic advice and a great place to wrap up this episode. So thank you so much for joining us for this is actually the first in the mix episode. I didn’t tell you that but it’s going to be an exciting one. We are dropping this in a couple of weeks. Now for those who would like to connect with you where can they find you hanging out online?

Brooke Vulinovich (48:19)
You can find me on Instagram at Brooke Bolinovich. My website is currently under construction because since all the news and everything that’s happened I really need to do a big rebrand but…

I’m gonna take Christmas off this year, because it’ll be the first year in seven years that I’ve been able to have a break, because I don’t have a membership anymore. And this is a 2025 project. So the website’s there, brookfulinovich.com. It’s just a landing page where you can join my email list. But feel free to join it.

Rachel (48:55)
I will link them both in the show notes there. And I look forward to seeing what the next evolution of your brand looks like. Now, if you enjoyed listening to this episode and would like to support this show, I would love it if you could leave us a rating and review on Apple or Spotify, perhaps even tell a friend or two, because that really does help us to reach more people. Plus we are also running a pretty epic giveaway competition at the moment. So you can actually win my entire digital product suite, which is valued at over.

Brooke Vulinovich (48:57)
you

So you can actually win my entire digital product suite, which is valued at

Rachel (49:23)
four and a half thousand dollars. So that means yes, you get access to Gramtini, Marquerida and ChatGNT, which is pretty epic. So all you have to do to enter that one is simply rate and review Pour It Out on Apple or Spotify. Take a screenshot of that and send it to us via the form linked in the show notes. The competition closes at 11.59 PM Australian Eastern Standard Time on Friday, January 31st with the winner being drawn at random and announced in the Pour It Out.

podcast Facebook community group on Thursday, February 6th. Say that three times fast.

Brooke Vulinovich (50:00)
You did really well. was like, whoa, hello.

Rachel (50:03)
Thank you, thank you,

thank you. She pulls it through right at the end. All right, that is it from me. Thank you so much for listening. I’ll see you all next time.

Brooke Vulinovich (50:09)
Thank you so much for listening. Bye!